Comments on: Dual Specs and Why I Don't Think They'll Suck

By: Pike

Pike — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 00:26:52 +0000

This is a good post. I, too, look forward to dual-specs, and I’m not even a hybrid!

By: Linedan

Linedan — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:57:58 +0000

“If I’m taking three tanks and six or seven healers for Patchwerk and Kel’Thuzad, what are those spare tanks and healers meant to do on Grobbulus and Thaddius, who both only need one tank, four or five healers, and a ton of DPS? Scratch themselves?

No – they either go back to town, respec and reglyph for DPS before Thaddius, and then repeat the process to return to their original spec for Kel’Thuzad (a time consuming and expensive solution), or they put out sub-par DPS on Thaddius and feel obsolete and inadequate.”

This is exactly my situation right now. We run four tanks in our Naxx 25-man, and I’m usually #4. Now we do switch up so all of us get to maintank and offtank a few fights and nobody is completely frozen out. But on the other bosses, I’m standing there putting out comparatively lame DPS with nothing really to contribute unless the other tanks die and I’m needed to step in.

So I’m looking forward to dual-spec so (assuming the mechanic isn’t totally ridiculous) I can swap back and forth a couple times a raid between my amazing studly protness and, say, an Arms raid-support bleedbot spec. For that, I’ll lug around another set of gear, I’ve done it before.

The irony is, I have no desire to dual-spec on any of my other characters, including two hunters, a blood DK, and a feral druid. The only one I’m going to get a dual spec for, at least at first, is Linedan, my “pure” prot warrior.

By: drug

drug — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:02:22 +0000

Yes I’m on the rant side as well when it comes to dual specs. I don’t think the sky will turn black and all undeads will start wearing pink panties, nonetheless I’m think blizzard could have thought of a better, more balanced implementation.

On Ghetto off-tanking:
I’m not sure in that regard dual specs will only bring changes for the good. In your normal raiding night more often than not the druid will still go kitty kitty. As easy as switching spec will be, it will still require a channeled spell and some mats. And yes people are lazy. For non-druid tanks on the other hand I see really pressure incoming to get a decent dps set. A boss will die with a warrior in prot gear/spec dps’ing as well, but many guilds will prefer a warrior in dps gear/spec for a progression fight. And in that progression fight the bear migh even be tanking, which would be a good thing. Nonetheless, while having a second gear set once was a nice addition it will now become a requierement in many raiding guilds.

On raid design:
As I remember Blizzard said that they do not design encounters around people taking advantage of dual specs. So on progression fights, some people will change spec, some people might be switched out for an additional dps, that’s nothing new. On farm content tanks and healers will still often do bad dps in their main spec. The problem I see is, that A LOT of tanks/healers will soon have an offspec that they earlier didn’t have. And even casual guilds will more likely than not get to new bosses with the near optimal lineup. That is not bad, but raid content now is easy. And always having the perfect lineup won’t make raids more challenging.

On pure DPS classes:
I agree switching spec is nothing new. But there are two things that don’t let me agree with you:
1. 50 gold isn’t much. But it’s something and with it comes annoying action bar arranging/reglyphing etc. And people, myself included, are lazy. So this is no minor change, a huge amount of hybrids will now really start collecting a second gear set and even get a lot of practice in it, considering how easy switching spec is.
2. WotLK brings an insane amount of loot, from raids and badges. Even your tier set can be completed with emblem gear. In BC it was sometimes pretty challenging to get decent gear for a second spec, now I get a full T7 set just for sticking around.

By: Melanne

Melanne — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:01:20 +0000

I think dual spec will rock, and the pure DPS classes will be just fine. Those hybrids that are going to use it already had their offspec gear anyway, they’ll just be more suited for their secondary role.

Like our enhancement shammy equipping resto gear on 4H for example, he’ll love having resto as his secondary spec. Does that mean that I have to be worried about him encroaching on my resto ‘turf’? Nah.

I might have an elemental spec as my secondary myself, does that mean the rest of the caster DPS should be worried? Nah. Our elemental shamans are chart toppers, and unless I invest a huge amount of time in a perfectly balanced gear setup, the appropriate rotations and the like, all it means that I will do 70% of their damage instead of 30-40% in my resto spec. But I’ll miss my riptide. I tried it last week, ran VoA as DPS … was elemental for about four hours, and then went back to my beloved resto spec.

If anything, it’ll encourage a bit more experimentation, or better optimization for roles we already like to play. I might go with a PvP healing spec for example on my shaman. I’ll get a pure DPS spec on my death knight, and my druid and paladin are totally going to get a secondary spec the second they hit 40, so I can have a leveling/DPS spec, with an optimized healing spec for instances and the like.

Bring it on :)

By: Xiphias

Xiphias — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 01:46:45 +0000

I think I would rather, as a Holy Paladin, just be in a healer/dps cross than switch from battle to battle. I just don’t like the idea of having to gear up twice -and- learn all different play styles. Pure DPS classes aren’t expected to learn how to heal or how to tank, so why should I, as a healer, be expected to learn how to DPS as well?
I mean, I love to help out my Guild – and I probably will bring more “offspec” gear as I get it, since otherwise such drops would just be sharded… And if I can afford dual spec, I might as well, since my DPS when put into Ret would be much better than Holy’s DPS, but my DPS would still suck compared to a dedicated Ret Paladin, since I don’t know how Ret works well and don’t enjoy it.
See, I enjoy tanking and healing, and I’ve found that we tend to have enough tanks, so I specced into Holy and have loved it so far (yay). However, if I wanted to dual spec, I’d probably do Holy/Prot, rather than Holy/Ret. Why? I like Prot for farming, due to its massive AoE + mitigation combo. Plus then I could pick up either of the “key roles” when doing heroics/etc.
The all-DPS classes have no choice but to DPS, so why should I work hard to take their slots away from those things? :)
I dunno, I’m just musing, I suppose. But I worry that I’ll get boo’d by my Guild for going Holy/Prot, since it’s rare for a group to want an extra tank and not an extra healer, but more often that a tank or healer can be dropped for extra DPS, and I don’t want to DPS.

By: BobTurkey

BobTurkey — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 22:51:16 +0000

Im pretty sure I read Ghost Crawler say somewhere that they were designing so that all things being equal DPS only classes like Rogues and Mages would do slightly more DPS than hybrids (wish I could remember where the quote was).

Other than loot distribution and a few ‘challenging’ guildies I think dual specs is going to be awesome.

Gobble gobble.

By: Ashleigh

Ashleigh — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:02:58 +0000

And also, is it really fun for people to dps in a tank or healer spec? Or have to pay 100 extra gold to swap around? And never mind the possibility of being needed on an early boss, not needed on interim bosses, and needed again on later bosses?

By: Ashleigh

Ashleigh — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 12:54:13 +0000

Some of those fights that really don’t need more tanks or healers also need higher dps (Thaddius, for example). It’s not just about people wanting to be a shining star or special snowflake (and, really, I think that characterization is unfair). It’s about better performance as a raid.

But pure dps classes aren’t in danger. There will never be a fight that needs 10 tanks and 15 healers. You will generally need 14+ dps on any given fight, which means you really only need a few healers and tanks who can swap back and forth, and you almost certainly wouldn’t need more than a few dps who could swap over to tanking and healing as needed.

By: Phyllixia

Phyllixia — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 03:48:50 +0000

I don’t think pure DPS classes in guilds will have a problem… but I do think if pure DPS classes are trying to find a guild, for instance, it will be harder. Applicant 1 is a well-geared boomkin, applicant 2 is a mage. If the guild doesn’t desperately need a mage in particular (eg. for Int buff and food), they’d probably pick up the boomkin – in case they ever need a backup healer.

By: Siha

Siha — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 03:02:32 +0000

Speaking as a hybrid who does pitiful DPS when not specced for it, it _does_ get disheartening. I would argue that it _is_ bad design to make encounters that consistently discriminate against a portion of a balanced raid force. I’m glad you didn’t mind standing on the outskirts of consecration doing nothing, but I’m sure many others _did_ find that frustrating, boring or just plain un-fun.
.
I think all boss fights should be fun for everyone, to a greater or lesser degree – it’s not a sense of entitlement, as you describe it (or at least I hope it’s not); it’s simply the feeling that “contributing” by sitting on the sidelines isn’t particularly satisfying. I never said everyone has to be a shining star all the time, but I do feel that yes, every player should be able to make a meaningful contribution to every fight.